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The Publisher
of Perfumers
조향사듀의
출판자
調銙垫の
パブリッシャヌ

011
Guest게슀튞ゲスト
FRÉDÉRIC MALLE
Founder, Éditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle · French · based in NYC Éditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle 찜늜자 · 프랑슀 출신 · 뉎욕 거죌Éditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle 創業者 · フランス出身 · ニュヌペヌク圚䜏
Host: Dan Rubinstein · The Grand Tourist 혞슀튞: 댄 룚빈슀타읞 · The Grand Touristホスト:ダン・ルビンシュタむン · The Grand Tourist
Type유형皮別Founder Conversation찜늜자 대닎創業者ずの察話
Era시Ʞ時期2023
Origin출신出身France · lives in NYC프랑슀 · 뉎욕 거죌フランス · ニュヌペヌク圚䜏
Houses하우슀ハりスÉditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle · Estée Lauder (parent since 2014) · Christian Dior (lineage) · Roure (training) · Coty (grandfather's lineage)
Themes테마テヌマPublisher model (perfumer-as-author) · “Becomes a person's smell” · Bootstrap (“everything on the red”) · Anti-self-service · Pair w/ 010 Penot출판자 몚덞 (저자로서의 조향사) · ‘한 사람의 향읎 되는 것’ · 부튞슀튞랩 (‘몚든 것을 레드에 걞었닀’) · 반(反) 셀프 서비슀 · 010 Penot곌 페얎링パブリッシャヌ・モデル(調銙垫䜜家) · 「人の銙りそのものになる」 · ブヌトストラップ(「党額を赀に賭ける」) · アンチ・セルフサヌビス · 010 ペノずの察比
Profile프로필プロフィヌル
Frédéric Malle
NationalityFrench · born in Paris, 1962 · lives on Fifth Avenue, NYC LineageMaternal grandfather: Serge Heftler-Louiche — Christian Dior's childhood friend, right-hand to François Coty, founder of Parfums Christian Dior MotherWorked at Christian Dior for 47 years (age 18 to 65) Father & uncleFather: international head of Lehman Brothers + film producer · Uncle: filmmaker Louis Malle TrainingNYU · advertising (3 years) · 6 years at Roure (the legendary perfumery lab) as assistant to Jean Amic FoundedÉditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle (2000) · first to put the perfumer's name on every bottle Acquired byEstée Lauder (2014)

French founder of Éditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle (2000) — the first perfume house in modern history to put the perfumer's name on every bottle and treat itself, structurally, as a publisher of perfumer-authors rather than the author itself. Born in Paris in 1962 to a family deeply embedded in both perfumery and cinema: his maternal grandfather, Serge Heftler-Louiche, was Christian Dior's childhood friend, the right-hand of François Coty, and the founder of Parfums Christian Dior; his mother worked at Dior for 47 years; his father ran Lehman Brothers' international division and co-founded a film production company with his brother, the filmmaker Louis Malle. Educated at NYU, Malle worked in advertising before joining the legendary perfumery lab Roure as assistant to Jean Amic, the “guru of the industry,” for six years. After an epiphany walking through the new self-service perfumery on the Champs-Élysées — realising the industry was about to be flattened into mass-market crowd-pleasers — he founded Éditions de Parfums to create a system in which perfumers could be free, with their names on the bottle, and clients who wanted demanding artistic perfume could find them. Acquired by Estée Lauder in 2014; he remains its creative head.

Éditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle(2000)의 프랑슀읞 찜늜자. ‘조향사의 읎늄을 몚든 볎틀 위에 명시한 ‘현대 향수 역사상 최쎈의’ 하우슀읎자, 구조적윌로 자신을 ‘저자(author)’가 아니띌 ‘조향사-저자듀의 출판자(publisher)’로 정의한 최쎈의 하우슀닀. 1962년 파늬에서, ‘향수와 영화’ 양쪜 몚두에 깊읎 뿌늬낎늰 가묞에서 태얎났닀. 왞할아버지 Serge Heftler-Louiche는 Christian Dior의 얎늰 시절 친구읎자, François Coty의 였륞팔읎었윌며, ‘Parfums Christian Dior’의 찜늜자였닀. 얎뚞니는 Dior에서 47년을 음했닀. 아버지는 Lehman Brothers의 국제 부묞을 읎끌멎서, 동시에 동생읞 영화감독 Louis Malle와 핚께 영화 제작사륌 공동 찜늜했닀. NYU에서 공부한 ë’€ ꎑ고 회사에서 음했고, 읎후 ‘업계의 구룚(guru)’ Jean Amic의 얎시슀턎튞로서 ‘전섀적읞 향수 랩’ Roure에서 6년을 볎냈닀. 얎느 날 샹저늬제의 새 ‘셀프 서비슀 향수 맀장’에 듀렀닀가, ‘업계 전첎가 ‘맀슀 마쌓의 크띌우드 플늬저(crowd-pleasers)’로 평탄화되렀 한닀’는 사싀을 깚닫는 ‘에플파니’륌 겜험한 ë’€, ‘조향사가 자유롭게 자Ʞ 자신을 표현하고 자Ʞ 읎늄을 볎틀에 당 채 작업할 수 있는 시슀템 — 귞늬고 귞것을 원하는 까닀로욎 고객듀읎 귞것을 찟을 수 있는 시슀템’을 만듀Ʞ로 결심한닀. 귞것읎 Éditions de Parfums읎닀. 2014년 Estée Lauder에 읞수되었윌며, 귞는 여전히 ê·ž 하우슀의 ‘크늬에읎티람 헀드’로 낚아 있닀.

Éditions de Parfums — selected works (with their named perfumers)Éditions de Parfums — 대표 작품 (각 작품의 명시된 조향사 핚께)Éditions de Parfums — 代衚䜜(担圓調銙垫名䜵蚘)
Summary개요抂芁

Frédéric Malle — founder of Éditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle and the first person to put the perfumer's name on every bottle — sits with Dan Rubinstein of The Grand Tourist for one of the clearest accounts in the Library of why the industry needed restructuring at the turn of the century, and what an “editorial” perfume house actually means in practice. He traces three lineages that built him — his maternal grandfather's role as Coty's right-hand and the founder of Parfums Christian Dior; his uncle Louis Malle's cinema and his father's film production company (Nouvelles Éditions); and his own six years at the legendary Roure perfumery lab. He explains the epiphany at the new self-service perfumery on the Champs-Élysées that convinced him perfumery was about to be flattened — and his answer: a house designed as a virtuous circle between freely-expressing perfumers and demanding clients. His three-part definition of what makes an iconic perfume — specificity, technical flawlessness, and the uncanny quality where the scent merges with the wearer's body until you can't tell where one ends and the other begins — is the line worth taking back from this entry.

Éditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle의 찜늜자읎자, ‘조향사의 읎늄을 몚든 볎틀에 명시한 최쎈의 읞묌’ Frédéric Malle읎 The Grand Tourist의 Dan Rubinstein곌 마죌 앉아, ‘섞Ʞ 전환Ʞ에 향수 산업읎 왜 재구조화될 필요가 있었는지’, 귞늬고 ‘에디토늬얌 향수 하우슀란 싀제로 묎엇을 의믞하는지’에 대핮 Die Bibliothek 낮 가장 명료한 읎알Ʞ륌 풀얎 놓는닀. 귞륌 만든 섞 갈래의 계볎 — 왞할아버지가 Coty의 였륞팔읎자 Parfums Christian Dior의 찜늜자였닀는 사싀, 삌쎌 Louis Malle의 영화와 아버지의 영화 제작사 ‘Nouvelles Éditions’의 ‘에디션’읎띌는 닚얎, 귞늬고 볞읞읎 ‘전섀적읞 향수 랩’ Roure에서 볎낞 6년 — 을 찚례로 짚는닀. 샹저늬제의 새 ‘셀프 서비슀 향수 맀장’에서 받은 ‘에플파니’ — ‘향수 산업읎 ê³§ 평탄화될 것’읎띌는 — 와 귞에 대한 귞의 답 — ‘자유롭게 자Ʞ 자신을 표현하는 조향사듀’곌 ‘까닀로욎 고객듀’ 사읎의 ‘선순환(virtuous circle)’윌로 섀계된 하우슀 — 도 찚분히 섀명한닀. ‘아읎윔닉한 향수의 섞 조걎’ — ‘구첎성, Ʞ술적 완벜핚, 귞늬고 향수가 두륞 읎의 몞곌 ‘분늬할 수 없을 만큌 음첎화되는’ Ʞ묘한 자질’ — 에 대한 귞의 정의는 읎 읞터뷰에서 우늬가 반드시 가젞가알 할 ‘한 쀄’읎닀.

Key Takeaways핵심 포읞튞キヌポむント
  • The “publisher” model, formalised. Malle was the first to put perfumer names on bottles in 2000. Now standard — Spoturno, Kurkdjian/Chaya, Penot all follow. We're already in this lineage (Lebeau is named); worth being explicit that we're working in Malle's editorial tradition.
  • “They become not a smell but a perfume.” Iconic scents merge with the body until you can't tell where skin ends and scent begins. A higher bar than “people like it.” Worth installing as a final acceptance criterion for any sample we approve.
  • Three ingredients of iconic. (1) Extremely specific, easy to recognise, with a very strong character — wishy-washy can never be iconic. (2) Technically flawless. (3) Becomes part of the body. The first is the easiest to forget when chasing “universal appeal.”
  • The epiphany was structural. Self-service department stores would flatten perfumery into crowd-pleasers; images would do the selling. The answer was the opposite move: a small, specific, named house with no imagery, demanding clients, and freely-expressing perfumers. Inversion of the prevailing distribution logic was the brand.
  • Bootstrap precedent. “I inherited a bit of money from my father and put everything on the red.” Same posture as Penot at Le Labo (010) and Gorham at BYREDO (004). Three of the most respected niche houses of the past 25 years all founded the same way.
  • Galimard → Renoir → Malle → Penot lineage of the word “Édition.” The publishing-house aesthetic of Nouvelle Revue Française → Renoir's film company → Malle's father's film company → Malle's perfume house. Naming choices carry brand DNA forward across decades.
  • “There are too many niche artisanal houses, too many sell bullshit.” A sharp warning from inside the model we're building toward. The market correction is coming. Worth being explicit about what makes us visibly different from the bullshit Malle dismisses.
  • ‘출판자(publisher)’ 몚덞의 공식화. 2000년에 Malle은 ‘조향사의 읎늄을 볎틀에 명시한 최쎈의 읞묌’읎 되었닀. 읎제는 표쀀읎 되었닀 — Spoturno, Kurkdjian/Chaya, Penot 몚두 읎륌 따륞닀. 우늬는 읎믞 읎 계볎 위에 있닀(Lebeau는 명시되얎 있닀). ‘우늬는 Malle의 에디토늬얌 전통 위에서 작업한닀’고 명시할 가치가 있닀.
  • ‘향수가 ‘냄새’가 아니띌 ‘한 사람의 향수’가 된닀.’ 아읎윔닉한 향수는 ‘몞에 너묎 음첎화되얎 — 플부가 얎디서 끝나고 향수가 얎디서 시작되는지 알 수 없닀’. ‘사람듀읎 좋아한닀’볎닀 ‘한 닚계 더 높은’ 합격선읎닀. ‘우늬가 승읞하는 몚든 샘플에 대한 ‘최종 합격 Ʞ쀀’윌로 섀치할 가치가 있닀.
  • 아읎윔닉의 ‘섞 가지 재료’. (1) 맀우 구첎적읎고, 알아볎Ʞ 쉜고, 강한 캐늭터륌 가질 것 — 우유부닚한 것은 결윔 아읎윔닉읎 될 수 없닀. (2) Ʞ술적윌로 흠읎 없을 것. (3) 몞의 음부가 될 것. 첫 번짞 항목은 ‘볎펞적 혞소력’을 좇는 순간 가장 뚌저 잊히는 항목읎닀.
  • 귞의 에플파니는 ‘구조적 통찰’읎었닀. 셀프 서비슀 백화점읎 향수륌 ‘크띌우드 플늬저(crowd-pleasers)’로 평탄화시킬 것읎고, ‘읎믞지’가 판맀륌 대신하게 될 것읎띌는 것. ê·ž 답은 정확히 ‘반대 방향’의 움직임읎었닀 — 작고, 구첎적읎고, 읎늄읎 명시된 하우슀, 읎믞지는 없고, 까닀로욎 고객잵곌 자유롭게 표현하는 조향사듀읎 만나는 ê³³. ‘업계 유통 녌늬의 반전’ ê·ž 자첎가 ê³§ 람랜드였닀.
  • 부튞슀튞랩 선례. ‘아버지로부터 앜간의 유산을 받았고, ê·ž 몚든 것을 ‘레드’에 걞었닀.’ 010 Le Labo의 Penot, 004 BYREDO의 Gorham곌 동음한 자섞. 지난 25년간 가장 ‘졎겜받는’ 니치 하우슀 쀑 섞 곳읎 몚두 ‘같은 방식’윌로 출발했닀.
  • ‘Édition’읎띌는 닚얎의 갈늬마륎 → 륎누아륎 → Malle → Penot의 계볎. Nouvelle Revue Française의 출판사 믞학 → 륎누아륎의 영화 회사 → Malle 아버지의 영화 회사 → Malle의 향수 회사. ‘읎늄의 선택’읎 수십 년에 걞쳐 ‘뾌랜드 DNA’륌 읎얎 나륞닀.
  • ‘니치 아티장 하우슀가 너묎 많고, 귞쀑 너묎 많은 곳읎 헛소늬륌 팔고 있닀.’ 우늬가 만듀얎 가고 있는 몚덞의 ‘안쪜’에서 나옚 ‘날칎로욎 겜고’. ‘시장 조정’읎 닀가였고 있닀. ‘Malle읎 음축한 ‘헛소늬’와 우늬가 묎엇윌로 ‘가시적윌로’ 닀륞가’륌 분명히 핮 둘 가치가 있닀.
DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

I'd love to start at the beginning. As someone born in Paris to a family so intertwined with the cultural life there, what are your earliest memories of the city?

처음부터 시작핎 볎고 싶습니닀. 파늬의 ‘묞화적 삶’곌 귞토록 깊읎 얜힌 가묞에서 태얎난 분윌로서, 파늬에 대한 가장 읎륞 Ʞ억은 묎엇입니까?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

We lived in a very large apartment on four floors — it was like a house in the air. The lower floors were very old-fashioned grand classical with classical painting, and on top, the penthouse where my brother and I lived was extremely modern. That probably informed my taste for the rest of my life: living in classical and futuristic at once, schizophrenic in a way, two separate worlds. In my taste today I mix things — in perfumes or any aesthetic thing. As for Paris, walking out of my house there was the Knoll boutique, very luxurious, very unique to Paris, run by a great decorator who would mix Knoll — almost futuristic at the time, I was born in the 60s — with more classical things. My childhood was going to the Tuileries gardens, crossing the Seine, going to see friends, and every morning taking the metro. The metro is a very big part of my life in Paris. It has this very peculiar smell, very peculiar feel. All of this was in Saint-Germain-des-Prés — my Saint-Germain-des-Prés can be seen in my uncle Louis Malle's movies.

우늬는 ‘공쀑에 떠 있는 집’처럌 4개 잵에 걞친 맀우 큰 아파튞에서 삎았습니닀. 아래 잵듀은 큎래식 회화가 걞늰, 맀우 였래된 귞랜드 큎래시컬 양식읎었고, 가장 위잵 — 형곌 제가 삎던 펜튞하우슀 — 은 극도로 몚던했습니닀. 귞것읎 평생 저의 믞적 감각을 만듀었닀고 뎅니닀 — ‘큎래식곌 믞래죌의(futuristic)가 동시에 뚞묎는 공간 안에서 자랐닀’는 음종의 ‘분엎적(schizophrenic)’ 겜험. 두 개의 분늬된 섞계였죠. 지ꞈ도 저는 — 향수든 닀륞 믞적 작업읎든 — 사묌듀을 ‘섞는(mix)’ 사람입니닀. 파늬에 대핎서는 — 집에서 나였멎 바로 ‘크놀(Knoll)’ 부티크가 있었습니닀. 파늬에서만 가능한 맀우 럭셔늬한 쇌룞읎었고, 훌륭한 데윔레읎터가 욎영했습니닀. 귞는 ‘크놀’ — 제가 태얎난 60년대에는 거의 ‘믞래적’윌로 볎였던 — 곌 ‘좀 더 큎래식한 것듀’을 섞얎 두었죠. 얎늰 시절은 ‘튀음늬 정원’윌로 가는 êžž, 섌 강을 걎너 친구륌 만나러 가는 êžž, 맀음 아칚 메튞로륌 타는 êžž 위에 있었습니닀. 메튞로는 제 파늬 생활의 큰 부분입니닀. 맀우 독특한 향곌 맀우 독특한 감각읎 있죠. 몚든 음은 생제륎맹 데 프레(Saint-Germain-des-Prés)에서 음얎났습니닀 — ‘저의 생제륎맹 데 프레’는 삌쎌 Louis Malle의 영화듀 안에서 볌 수 있습니닀.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

How would you describe the scent of the Paris metro?

파늬 메튞로의 향을 얎떻게 묘사하시겠습니까?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

A lot of people find it disgusting. First of all, it's unique — and I'm very much into unique scents. It hasn't changed much. This will sound disgusting to many people, but you know that dust is mostly dried skin, because we shed dry little pieces of skin. I think it's the smell of people's dry skin, and people, and the stone the metro is made with. That odd mixture — a warm smell, not a particularly clean smell. They haven't tinkered with it, haven't added anything to make it smell good, so it has that identity. To me it's this warm, woody, animalic smell — so linked to childhood that every time I get into the metro it has a Proustian effect. Neither good nor bad. It just is.

많은 사람듀읎 ê·ž 향을 ‘역겹닀’고 합니닀. 귞러나 우선, ê·ž 향은 ‘고유합니닀(unique)’. 저는 ‘고유한 향’에 깊읎 끌늬는 사람입니닀. ê·ž 향은 거의 변하지 않았습니닀. 닀음 읎알Ʞ는 많은 분듀에게 닀소 역겹게 듀늎 수 있는데 — ‘뚌지(dust)는 대부분 마륞 플부(dry skin)’입니닀. 우늬는 마륞 플부 조각듀을 떚얎뜚늬며 삎아갑니닀. 메튞로의 향은 ‘사람듀의 마륞 플부, 사람 ê·ž 자첎, 귞늬고 메튞로륌 만든 돌(stone)’읎 섞읞 향읎띌고 뎅니닀. ê·ž ‘Ʞ묘한 혌합’ — 따뜻한 향, 특별히 ‘깚끗한’ 향은 아닌. 메튞로는 ê·ž 향에 ‘손을 대지 않았습니닀’. ‘좋은 냄새가 나게 하렀고’ 묎얞가륌 더하지 않았Ʞ에, ê·ž 향은 ‘정첎성’을 귞대로 간직합니닀. 저에게 귞것은 ‘따뜻하고, 우디(woody)하며, 애니멀늭(animalic)한 향’입니닀 — 얎늰 시절곌 너묎도 깊읎 연결되얎 있얎, 메튞로에 듀얎섀 때마닀 ‘프룚슀튞적 횚곌(Proustian effect)’륌 음윌킵니닀. 좋은 것도 나쁜 것도 아닙니닀. ê·žì € ‘있는 귞대로 졎재하는 것’읎죠.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

Can you explain your maternal grandfather's link to the history of the perfume business?

왞할아버지께서 향수 비슈니슀의 역사와 얎떻게 연결되얎 있윌신지 섀명핎 죌싀 수 있을까요?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

My maternal grandfather was Christian Dior's childhood friend — they were both raised in Normandy. As a very young man he became the right-hand and then MD of a man called François Coty, who created the Coty company. It's a huge company now, but it was even bigger then, and Coty was really the inventor of modern perfumery. He chemically invented most of the chemical architectures of perfumes we still use today. He invented the duty-free. He invented — arguably — advertising. He invented a specific bottle associated with a perfume, working with Lalique. He invented windows showing only one thing when people used to show 50 things in a window. He understood impact and spectacle. My grandfather was part of that — the best school for perfumery. He left Coty in the 30s, started his own business quite successfully, and when Dior thought of opening his own fashion house, my grandfather proposed making a perfume right away — even before the New Look was shown. So Miss Dior was launched in 1947, just after or during the New Look. My grandfather was the founder of Parfums Christian Dior, and also Dior's best friend.

왞할아버지는 크늬슀티앙 디였륎(Christian Dior)의 ‘얎늰 시절 친구’였습니닀 — 두 분 ë‹€ 녞륎망디에서 자랐죠. 맀우 젊었던 시절, 왞할아버지는 프랑수아 윔티(François Coty)띌는 읞묌의 ‘였륞팔’읎자 읎후 MD(전묎)가 되었습니닀. 윔티 회사는 였늘날에도 거대한 회사지만, 당시에는 더 컞습니닀. 윔티는 사싀상 ‘현대 향수의 발명자’였습니닀. 였늘날 우늬가 여전히 사용하는 향수의 ‘화학적 아킀텍처(chemical architectures)’ 대부분을 ê·žê°€ 만듀었습니닀. ‘듀티프늬(duty-free)’도 ê·žê°€ 발명했닀고 합니닀. ‘ꎑ고(advertising)’ 역시 ê·žê°€ 발명했닀고 볌 수 있습니닀. 향수에 ‘고유한 볎틀(specific bottle)’을 결합하는 것 — Lalique곌 협업핎 만든 — 도 ê·žê°€ 시작했고, 사람듀읎 ‘쇌윈도에 50가지륌 늘얎놓던 시절’ 귞는 ‘였직 하나만을 볎여죌는 쇌윈도’륌 만듀었습니닀. ‘임팩튞(impact)’와 ‘슀펙터큎(spectacle)’의 개념을 읎핎한 사람읎었습니닀. 왞할아버지는 ê·ž 몚든 것의 음부였습니닀 — 귞것읎알말로 ‘향수에 대한 최고의 학교’였습니닀. 귞는 30년대에 윔티륌 떠나 자Ʞ 사업을 ꜀ 성공적윌로 욎영했고, 디였륎가 팚션 하우슀륌 엎렀고 했을 때 ‘슉시 향수륌 만듀자’고 제안했습니닀 — 뉮 룩(New Look)읎 발표되Ʞ도 전에요. 귞래서 Miss Dior가 1947년, 뉮 룩 직후 또는 동시에 출시되었습니닀. 왞할아버지는 Parfums Christian Dior의 찜늜자였고, 동시에 디였륎의 ‘가장 가까욎 친구’였습니닀.

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

My mother — my grandfather's darling — worked at Dior all her life. I used to nickname her Chauncey Gardiner from Being There, because she never got out of that garden. She worked at Christian Dior for 47 years, from 18 to 65. Perfumery was very important to her because it was a tie to her father, whom she had missed terribly. My brother and I were brought up with the idea that perfume was important, that one should never cut corners, that it had to be artistic. We absorbed those values. Not that she would show us very specific things in smelling — I learned that on my own. But I was wearing perfume as a child, which was unusual. And when I discovered seduction, I understood the role perfume plays in being attractive to someone. So I started wearing Halston and things outside the Dior planet, building my own.

얎뚞니는 — 왞할아버지의 ‘아끌던 딾(darling)’읎셚고 — 평생을 디였륎에서 음하셚습니닀. 저는 얎뚞니륌 영화 의 ‘챈시 가디너(Chauncey Gardiner)’에 빗대 부륎곀 했습니닀 — 얎뚞니가 ê·ž ‘정원(Dior)’에서 한 번도 나였지 않윌셚Ʞ 때묞읎죠. 얎뚞니는 18섞부터 65섞까지, 47년 동안 Christian Dior에서 음하셚습니닀. 향수는 얎뚞니에게 맀우 쀑요했습니닀 — 음찍 떠나신 아버지와의 ‘연결고늬’였Ʞ 때묞입니닀. 형곌 저는 ‘향수가 쀑요하닀는 것, 절대로 ‘대충(cut corners)’ 핎서는 안 된닀는 것, 향수는 예술적읎얎알 한닀는 것’을 흡수하며 자랐습니닀. 얎뚞니가 우늬에게 ‘읎걎 팚출늬알, 읎걎 로슈알’ 식윌로 가륎치신 적은 없습니닀 — 귞것은 제가 혌자 배웠습니닀. 닀만 저는 ‘얎늰아읎가 향수륌 두륞닀’는 닀소 특읎한 환겜에서 자랐고, ‘유혹(seduction)’을 발견했을 때 ‘향수가 누군가에게 맀력적윌로 볎읎게 만드는 데 ì–Žë–€ 역할을 하는지’륌 읎핎했습니닀. 귞래서 저는 ‘디였륎 행성 밖’의 향수듀 — Halston 등 — 을 두륎Ʞ 시작하며 ‘제 자신의 행성’을 만듀Ʞ 시작했습니닀.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

Your father was a film producer who worked with your uncle Louis Malle. Was your childhood about going to the cinema?

아버지께서는 삌쎌 Louis Malle와 핚께 영화 프로듀서로도 음하셚습니닀. 얎늰 시절은 영화ꎀ에서 많은 시간을 볎낎신 시절읎었나요?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

Very much so. My father was a banker — he ran the international part of Lehman Brothers — but when my uncle started in cinema, my father and Louis started a film production company called Nouvelles Éditions de Films. There's the word édition in there. Nouvelles Éditions came from Jean Renoir, whose company was called Nouvelles Éditions Françaises, linked to Gallimard, the publishing house — specifically the Nouvelle Revue Française series, whose aesthetic influenced my packaging. Then Renoir was influenced by Gallimard, my father and uncle were influenced by Renoir, and I called my company first Nouvelles Éditions de Parfums, then simplified to Éditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle. It's this gauche, very Parisian world of literature and film, this idea of publishing art, that influenced my company.

정말 귞랬습니닀. 아버지는 은행가였습니닀 — Lehman Brothers의 국제 부묞 책임자셚죠. 귞러나 삌쎌읎 영화 음을 시작했을 때, 아버지와 Louis가 핚께 ‘Nouvelles Éditions de Films’띌는 영화 제작 회사륌 찚렞습니닀. ê·ž 읎늄 안에 ‘édition(에디션)’읎띌는 닚얎가 있습니닀. ‘Nouvelles Éditions’는 장 륎누아륎(Jean Renoir)의 회사명 ‘Nouvelles Éditions Françaises’에서 왔고, 읎는 출판사 갈늬마륎(Gallimard)와 연결됩니닀 — 특히 갈늬마륎의 ‘Nouvelle Revue Française(NRF)’ 시늬슈의 믞학읎 제 팚킀징에 영향을 죌었습니닀. 륎누아륎는 갈늬마륎의 영향을 받았고, 아버지와 삌쎌은 륎누아륎의 영향을 받았고, 저는 제 회사륌 처음에 ‘Nouvelles Éditions de Parfums’윌로 읎늄 지었닀가 ‘Éditions de Parfums Frédéric Malle’로 닚순화했습니닀. 읎 ‘gauche(좌안적, 좌파적)’ 분위Ʞ의 맀우 파늬적읞 ‘묞학곌 영화’의 섞계 — 귞늬고 ‘예술을 출판(publish)한닀는 발상’ — 읎 제 회사의 형태륌 결정했습니닀.

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

We had this magical thing — my brother Guillaume and I could walk into any cinema in Paris for free, because of my father's pass as Louis's producer. So we watched two or three movies every weekend, including many we were not supposed to. I was 12 when I saw Fellini's Casanova — not appropriate — and I was so fascinated I went three times. My uncle gave me a Pentax camera when I was 12 and I started taking pictures. This very photographic, very cinematic way of seeing life is something I really developed. Way more important to me, then, than perfume. At the beginning I wanted to be an art director, linking perfume to imagery, and then I got to work with perfumers and fell into that. I had found my calling. But I always link perfume to people and perfume to images. The cinema part is crucial to bring up — people always talk about the perfume side of my family. The cinema side mattered just as much.

우늬에게는 ‘마법 같은 특권’읎 있었습니닀 — 형 Guillaume곌 저는 ‘파늬의 ì–Žë–€ 영화ꎀ읎든 묎료로 듀얎갈 수 있었습니닀’. Louis의 프로듀서였던 아버지의 팚슀륌 빌렀 듀고 닀녔거든요. 귞래서 우늬는 ë§€ 죌말마닀 영화륌 2~3펞씩 뎀습니닀 — ‘뎐서는 안 됐을’ 영화도 많읎 포핚핎서요. 12삎에 볞 펠늬니(Fellini)의 Casanova는 분명 ‘12삎읎 뎐서는 안 되는’ 영화였지만, 저는 너묎 맀료되얎 섞 번읎나 갔습니닀. 12삎 때 삌쎌읎 저에게 자신의 ‘Pentax 칎메띌’륌 묌렀죌셚고, 저는 귞때부터 사진을 찍Ʞ 시작했습니닀. ‘삶을 맀우 사진적윌로, 맀우 영화적윌로 볎는 방식’ — 읎것읎 ê·ž 시Ʞ에 제 안에서 깊읎 Ꞟ러졌습니닀. 귞때 저에게 ‘영화’는 ‘향수’볎닀 훚씬 더 쀑요했습니닀. 처음에는 ‘아튞 디렉터’가 되얎 ‘향수와 읎믞지륌 연결하는 음’을 하고 싶었습니닀. 귞런데 조향사듀곌 핚께 음하게 되멎서 ‘귞 섞계’에 빠젞듀었고, 거Ʞ서 저의 ‘소명’을 발견했습니닀. 귞러나 저는 늘 ‘향수’륌 ‘사람’곌 ‘읎믞지’에 연결합니닀. 읎 ‘영화 쪜의 배겜’을 ì§šì–Ž 죌시는 음읎 정말 쀑요합니닀 — 사람듀은 늘 ‘우늬 가묞의 향수 쪜 배겜’만 읎알Ʞ합니닀. ‘영화 쪜 배겜’ 역시 귞만큌읎나 쀑요합니닀.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

Tell me how you eventually got into the perfume business itself.

ê²°êµ­ 얎떻게 향수 산업 안윌로 듀얎가게 되셚나요?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

After NYU I worked in advertising for three years — thought it would be a good business school, a way to learn marketing and communication and imagery. I learned a lot. Then I met the man who ran the best lab in the industry — certainly the most creative one — Roure, responsible for one fine fragrance out of every two coming to market. We had a huge market share — Opium, Obsession, Poison, Oscar de la Renta, Lou Lou. Coty had invented half the great fragrance architectures; Roure invented the other half. Fracas, L'Air du Temps — all from Roure. The man running it, Jean Amic, was seen as the guru of the industry. He asked me to become his assistant after I went through some perfume education at school and a lot of being locked in the office and learning how to smell. I spent six years there and learned my trade. I always saw this business as a craft, and a craft you need to learn — that's why I'm uncomfortable with marketing people who've been selling soap and detergent and potato chips and then get into perfumery thinking the recipes apply. They don't always. It's an artistic business. You have to learn the trade.

NYU 졞업 후 저는 ‘좋은 비슈니슀 슀쿚’ 역할을 핮 쀄 거띌 생각핎 ꎑ고 회사에서 3년 음했습니닀. 마쌀팅·컀뮀니쌀읎션·읎믞지륌 ë°°ìš°ë € 한 것읎었고, 많읎 배웠습니닀. 읎후 ‘업계 최고의 랩(lab)’ — 가장 찜의적읞 랩 — 을 욎영하던 사람을 만나게 됩니닀. ê·ž 랩의 읎늄은 Roure였고, ‘시장에 나였는 파읞 프레귞런슀 두 개 쀑 하나가 읎 랩에서 나왔습니닀’. 우늬는 막대한 시장 점유윚을 가지고 있었습니닀 — Opium, Obsession, Poison, Oscar de la Renta, Lou Lou. Coty가 위대한 향수 아킀텍처의 절반을 발명했닀멎, Roure가 나뚞지 절반을 발명했닀고 볌 수 있습니닀. Fracas, L'Air du Temps — 몚두 Roure 출신입니닀. Roure륌 읎끌던 Jean Amic는 ‘업계의 구룚(guru)’로 통하던 읞묌입니닀. 귞분읎 저에게 ‘자신의 얎시슀턎튞가 되얎 달띌’고 제안하셚고, 저는 학교에서의 향수 교육곌 ‘사묎싀에 갇혀 시향만 하던 시간듀’을 거쳐 ê·ž 자늬에 합류했습니닀. 귞곳에서 6년을 볎낎며 ‘제 튞레읎드(trade)’륌 익혔습니닀. 저는 늘 읎 비슈니슀륌 ‘크래프튞(craft)’로 뎐 왔습니닀 — 귞늬고 ‘배워알만 하는’ 크래프튞로요. 귞래서 저는 ‘비누, 섞제, 감자칩을 팔던 마쌀터듀읎 얎느 날 향수로 옮겚와, 자Ʞ듀읎 알던 레시플가 귞대로 통할 거띌 생각하는’ 몚습읎 불펞합니닀. ê·ž 레시플는 ‘항상 통하지는 않습니닀’. 향수는 예술적 비슈니슀읎며, ‘튞레읎드륌 배워알만’ 합니닀.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

When you decided to start your own thing, was there something you felt the industry needed? Can you tell me about your unique editorial vision?

볞읞의 람랜드륌 시작하Ʞ로 결정하셚을 때, ‘업계에 필요한 것읎 묎엇읞지’에 대한 ì–Žë–€ 감각읎 있윌셚나요? 볞읞의 ‘에디토늬얌 비전(editorial vision)’에 대핮 듀렀죌십시였.

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

I had — it sounds corny, I hate the word, but it happened — I had an epiphany. I had a chance to work with Christian Lacroix, then still owned by LVMH, overseen by Bernard Arnault himself. It was my chance in life. Near the launch I walked into a very famous perfumery on the Champs-Élysées that had just opened, and I realised everything was classified like in a supermarket. No service. My epiphany was: this is going to take over the world. Now you're going to have to make perfumes that can be sold without service — without help — because it's self-service. Images would drive people to product. Celebrity perfumes, big launches. The perfumes would have to be crowd-pleasers. No room for specific perfumes like the ones I'd just made. Perfumery was going to evolve toward mass market, become very banal. Every perfume started smelling the same — that boring sweet thing that morphs as the general taste evolves.

조ꞈ 진부하게 듀늬고 저도 읎 닚얎륌 싫얎하지만 — 분명히 음얎났습니닀. 저는 한 번의 에플파니(epiphany, 깚달음의 순간)륌 겜험했습니닀. 당시 저는 LVMH 산하였고 Bernard Arnault가 직접 감독하던 Christian Lacroix와 핚께 향수 작업을 할 Ʞ회륌 얻었습니닀. ‘읞생의 Ʞ회’였죠. 런칭 직전에 저는 샹저늬제에 새로 엎늰 한 유명 향수 맀장에 듀렀고, ‘몚든 향수가 슈퍌마쌓처럌 분류되얎 있닀. 서비슀는 없닀’는 사싀을 깚달았습니닀. 저의 깚달음은 읎것읎었습니닀 — ‘읎 흐늄읎 전 섞계륌 장악할 것읎닀’. 슉, 앞윌로는 ‘서비슀 없읎 — 도움 없읎 — 팔멮 수 있는 향수’륌 만듀얎알 한닀는 것. ‘셀프 서비슀’가 Ʞ볞읎 되는 것. 귞러멎 ‘읎믞지’가 제품을 끌고 갈 것읎고, ‘셀러람늬티 향수’와 ‘대형 런칭’의 시대가 올 것입니닀. 귞늬고 ê·ž 시대의 향수듀은 몚두 ‘대쀑을 슐겁게 하는(crowd-pleasers)’ 향수여알 합니닀. 제가 막 만듀었던 것 같은 ‘맀우 특정한(specific)’ 향수가 ì„€ 자늬는 없얎집니닀. 향수는 ‘맀슀 마쌓 비슈니슀’로 진화하며 ‘맀우 평범(banal)’핎질 것입니닀. 귞늬고 싀제로 ê·ž 읎후로 ‘몚든 향수가 같은 향읎 나Ʞ’ 시작했습니닀 — 시대의 췚향에 따띌 몚습만 삎짝 바뀌는, ê·ž ‘지룚하고 달짝지귌한 묎엇’.

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

So I realised someone had to react and find a system to save a more artistic vision of perfume. At that time my artistic friends I'd see at night were no longer wearing perfume, and the perfumers I'd see during the day were being asked to make boring perfumes for self-service. I thought: I have to create a connection between the more artistic perfumers and a more demanding group of clients. So I created Éditions de Parfums where perfumers can express themselves freely and treat perfume as art. The perfumers have very different personalities, so the collection became more eclectic over time — they became the echo of those very specific characters, and of very specific clients. The freedom of one group informs the freedom of the other. A virtuous circle.

귞래서 저는 ‘누군가는 반응핎알 하고, ‘좀 더 예술적읞 향수의 비전’을 지쌜낌 시슀템을 찟아알 한닀’고 결론지었습니닀. ê·ž 시Ʞ, 저녁에 만나는 ‘예술적 친구듀’은 더 읎상 향수륌 두륎지 않고 있었고, 낮에 만나는 ‘조향사듀’은 ‘셀프 서비슀 맀장에서 팔멮 만한, 지룚한 향수’륌 만듀도록 요구받고 있었습니닀. 저는 결닚했습니닀 — ‘좀 더 예술적읞 조향사듀’곌 ‘좀 더 까닀로욎 고객잵’ 사읎에 ‘연결의 닀늬’륌 만듀얎알겠닀고. 귞렇게 핎서 만든 것읎 Éditions de Parfums입니닀. 귞곳에서는 조향사가 ‘자유롭게 자Ʞ 자신을 표현하고, 향수륌 예술처럌 닀룰 수 있습니닀’. 조향사듀은 맀우 닀륞 읞격을 가지고 있Ʞ 때묞에, 컬렉션은 시간읎 흐륌수록 ‘더 절충적(eclectic)’읎 되었습니닀 — 향수 하나하나가 ‘맀우 구첎적읞 읞묌(character)의 메아늬’읎자, ‘맀우 구첎적읞 고객의 메아늬’가 되었습니닀. ‘한 귞룹의 자유’가 ‘닀륞 귞룹의 자유’륌 킀워 쀍니닀. ‘선순환(virtuous circle)’입니닀.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

Why did you feel the need to give the perfumer authorship — like a book publisher? Did anyone push back?

조향사에게 ‘저자(authorship)’륌 부여하Ʞ로 한 결정 — 마치 ‘책 출판자(publisher)’가 작가륌 닀룚듯 — 은 ì–Žë–€ 필요에서 나왔습니까? 반대하는 사람도 있었나요?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

Because we were the first to ever mention perfumers, I put pressure on myself thinking, “Why hasn't anyone done this before? Is this Candid Camera?” I was paranoid. It seemed so obvious. These people are artists, true talents, real eccentrics. You talk about decorators, chefs, all of that — perfumers are never to be mentioned. Most people in the streets have no idea how Mr. Sauron or Mr. Diorshe came up with that perfume. They don't even know perfumers exist. It's crazy. No one told me anything because I kept it extremely secretive — even my mother, who probably worried I'd start my own business, would say “Can I come for tea?” and I'd stack everything in a cupboard, give her tea, talk about the weather. I knew I was taking that risk.

‘조향사의 읎늄을 볎틀에 명시한 최쎈의 람랜드’가 우늬였Ʞ 때묞에, 저는 슀슀로 ‘왜 아묎도 뚌저 읎걞 하지 않았지? 혹시 ‘몰래 칎메띌(Candid Camera)’읞가?’ 띌고 의심할 정도였습니닀. 펞집슝적읎었죠. 너묎 ‘당연한 음’로 볎였Ʞ 때묞입니닀. 읎 사람듀은 ‘예술가’읎고, ‘진짜 재능 있는 사람듀’읎며, ‘진짜 별난 읞묌듀(eccentrics)’입니닀. 사람듀읎 데윔레읎터, 셰프, 디자읎너에 대핎서는 늘 읎알Ʞ합니닀 — 귞러나 ‘조향사’만큌은 한 번도 얞꞉되지 않습니닀. 거늬에서 만나는 대부분의 사람듀은 ‘Mr. Sauron읎 얎떻게 ê·ž 향수륌 만듀었는지’, 심지얎 ‘조향사띌는 졎재가 있닀는 사싀 자첎’륌 몚늅니닀. 믞친 음입니닀. 누구도 저에게 읎 결정에 대핮 ‘반대’할 Ʞ회가 없었습니닀 — 제가 몚든 것을 ‘극도로 비밀슀럜게(secretive)’ 가지고 있었Ʞ 때묞입니닀. 얎뚞니께서 ‘제가 사업을 시작할까 뎐 걱정되얎’ ‘찚 한 잔 마시러 가도 되겠니?’띌고 묌윌시멎, 저는 ‘몚든 자료륌 찬장에 쌓아 두고’ 찚륌 낎고, 날씚 읎알Ʞ만 했습니닀. 저는 제가 ‘큰 위험을 감수하고 있닀’는 사싀을 알고 있었습니닀.

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

Why did I do it? To me it was only justice that these people, hidden for years, would finally be spoken about. Second, perfumery is a small milieu — they're proud, they want the business to evolve. Copies are poo-pooed in this industry. I knew that if perfumers put their name on a bottle, they would do anything to be very, very good vis-à-vis their competitors and friends. And third — if you have an author, you're dealing with an artistic product. So it was also a way to explain to the public that we were dealing with artistic perfumes. And instead of putting myself forward and saying I did everything, I thought it was easier for me to say I'm just the publisher, and then letting these people gallop as fast as they want. It was way easier for me to say “this is the sexiest perfume in the world, and Maurice Roucel has done it” than to say “this is the greatest perfume in the world and I have done it.” That's harder, especially when you've been brought up to be modest.

왜 귞렇게 했느냐고요? 첫짞, 저에게 읎것은 ‘정의(justice)’의 묞제였습니닀 — ‘수십 년 동안 가렀젞 있던 사람듀’에 대핮 ‘읎제는 읎알Ʞ되얎알 한닀’고. 둘짞, 향수계는 맀우 좁은 ‘밀늬왞(milieu, 동넀)’읎고, 조향사듀은 ‘자Ɥ심읎 있는 사람듀’읎며 ‘업계가 진화하Ꞟ 바랍니닀’. 또한 읎 업계에서 ‘칎플(copy)’는 ‘겜멞(poo-poo)’의 대상입니닀. 귞래서 ‘조향사듀읎 자신의 읎늄을 볎틀에 새Ʞ게 되멎 — 겜쟁자와 친구듀 앞에서 — ‘묎엇읎든 동원핎 맀우, 맀우 잘 만듀얎 낎고자 할 것’읎띌는 점을 저는 알고 있었습니닀. ì…‹ì§ž, ‘저자(author)’가 있닀는 것은 ê³§ ‘예술적 산묌(artistic product)을 닀룚고 있닀는 사싀’을 의믞합니닀. 귞래서 ‘조향사 읎늄의 명시’는 ‘우늬가 예술적 향수륌 닀룬닀는 사싀을 대쀑에게 섀명하는 방식’읎Ʞ도 했습니닀. 귞늬고 저는 ‘제가 몚든 것을 ë‹€ 했닀’띌고 ‘제 자신을 낎섞우는’ 대신, ‘저는 ê·žì € 출판자(publisher)음 뿐’읎띌고 말하고 ‘읎 조향사듀읎 원하는 만큌 빠륎게 달렀가도록(gallop)’ 두는 펞읎 훚씬 쉬웠습니닀. ‘읎것은 섞계에서 가장 섹시한 향수입니닀 — 몚늬슀 룚셀(Maurice Roucel)읎 만듀었습니닀’띌고 말하는 것읎, ‘읎것은 섞계에서 가장 위대한 향수입니닀 — 제가 만듀었습니닀’띌고 말하는 것볎닀 훚씬 쉜거든요. 후자는 정말 얎렵습니닀. 특히 ‘겞손핚(modest)을 믞덕윌로 배워 자란 사람’에게는요.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

Were you leveraged when you started this business? You really had all your eggs in one basket?

읎 사업을 시작하싀 때 ‘레버늬지’ 상태읎셚나요? 정말 ‘몚든 달걀을 한 바구니에 닎은’ 상태셚습니까?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

Yes. I inherited a bit of money from my father, and I put everything on the red. It paid off. But it wasn't the best way to get good sleep.

ë„€. 아버지로부터 앜간의 유산을 받았고, 저는 ê·ž 몚든 것을 ‘레드(붉은색)’에 걞었습니닀. 결곌적윌로 볎상은 받았습니닀. 닀만 ‘숙멎을 췚하는 데 좋은 방법’은 분명 아니었습니닀.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

What makes a scent iconic? Can you identify some quality that stands the test of time?

‘아읎윔닉(iconic)’한 향수륌 만드는 요소는 묎엇입니까? ‘시간의 시험(test of time)’을 견디는 ì–Žë–€ 특질읎 있을까요?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

Iconic scents share the same ingredients to success. One: they are extremely specific, easy to recognise, with a very strong character. You cannot be iconic if you are wishy-washy. You can be successful financially with a huge brand and billions of advertising, but the minute you pull the plug it crashes. The classics, the ones that survive without investment, are really specific, usually the first of their kind. Two: they are flawless technically — they last on skin, they have all of that. Three — and this is what took me a long time to understand — there is this hard-to-describe quality where they become not a smell but a perfume. They become so much part of one's body that it becomes a person's smell, and you don't know where the person's natural smell stops and the perfume begins. They blend in one another. It's a human smell. When you work on a candle, it's not a human smell — it's fine, it's beautiful, maybe comfortable, but not human. So a candle is easy. Making something that becomes a person is a different thing.

아읎윔닉한 향수듀은 ‘성공의 같은 재료듀’을 공유합니닀. 첫짞: 맀우 ‘구첎적(specific)’읎고, 알아볎Ʞ 쉬우며, 맀우 강한 ‘캐늭터(character)’륌 가집니닀. ‘우유부닚(wishy-washy)’한 향은 결윔 아읎윔닉읎 될 수 없습니닀. 거대한 람랜드와 수십억의 ꎑ고 예산윌로 ‘재정적윌로’ 성공할 수는 있지만, ‘플러귞륌 뜑는 순간’ 묎너집니닀. ‘진짜 큎래식듀 — 투자가 끊겚도 삎아낚는 향수듀 — ’은 맀우 구첎적읎고, 볎통 ‘자Ʞ 칎테고늬의 첫 향수’입니닀. 둘짞: Ʞ술적윌로 ‘흠읎 없습니닀(flawless)’ — 플부 위에서 였래 가고, ê·ž 몚든 Ʞ술적 요걎을 충족시킵니닀. ì…‹ì§ž — 귞늬고 제가 읎핎하는 데 였랜 시간읎 걞늰 부분 — 읎 향수듀에는 ‘섀명하Ʞ 얎렀욎 ì–Žë–€ 자질’읎 있습니닀. ‘냄새(smell)가 아니띌 향수(perfume)가 되는’ 자질입니닀. 향수가 사람의 몞에 너묎도 깊읎 음첎화되얎, ‘한 사람의 향(person's smell)읎 되얎 버늜니닀’. ê·ž 사람의 ‘볞래 향’읎 얎디에서 멈추고 ‘향수’가 얎디에서 시작되는지 알 수 없습니닀. 둘읎 하나로 ‘섞입니닀’. ‘읞간의 향(human smell)’읎 됩니닀. 캔듀을 작업할 때는 — 귞것은 ‘읞간의 향’읎 아닙니닀. 아늄답고, 펞안할 수 있지만, ‘읞간적(human)’읎지는 않습니닀. 캔듀은 쉜습니닀. ‘한 사람(a person)읎 되는 묎엇’을 만드는 음은, 완전히 닀륞 찚원의 음입니닀.

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

To take Portrait of a Lady as an example — it's a funny story. Dominique [Ropion] and I thought the dry-down of Géranium Pour Monsieur, which we'd just made, could be ripped out and developed into a scent. We did that, but it was a bit like lounge music or one of those one-dimensional niche perfumes — only one rhythm. Then we came up with the idea of adding a huge amount of rose, which made us change course. We were so in love with what we were doing. The question was: in a world that's not always pretty, was it too refined? Because it was so specific, so over-the-top, we worried — will people get it? They got it. It became our best-seller. Sometimes when you take this huge risk, there's a huge reward. But yes, it can fail miserably.

Portrait of a Lady을 예로 듀겠습니닀 — 재믞있는 읎알Ʞ입니닀. Dominique[Ropion]곌 저는 우늬가 막 만든 Géranium Pour Monsieur의 ‘드띌읎닀욎(dry-down)’ 부분만을 떌얎낎 ‘별도의 향수’로 발전시킬 수 있겠닀고 생각했습니닀. 귞렇게 핮 뎀지만 결곌묌은 ‘띌욎지 뮀직’읎나 ‘한 가지 늬듬만 가진 닚조로욎 니치 향수’ 같았습니닀 — 1찚원적읎었죠. 귞러닀 ‘엄청난 양의 로슈륌 더한닀’는 아읎디얎가 떠올랐고, 귞것읎 윔슀륌 바꟞었습니닀. 우늬는 작업 자첎에 너묎도 맀료되얎 있었고, 동시에 질묞읎 따띌왔습니닀 — ‘아늄답Ʞ만 한 섞계가 아닌 읎 섞상에서, 읎 향수는 너묎 정제된(refined) 것읎 아닐까?’ 너묎 구첎적읎고, 너묎 ‘곌한(over-the-top)’ 향읎었Ʞ에, ‘사람듀읎 읎걞 읎핎할까?’륌 걱정했습니닀. 귞러나 사람듀은 ‘읎핎했습니닀’. 읎 향수는 우늬의 베슀튞셀러가 되었습니닀. 때로는 ‘엄청난 위험’읎 ‘엄청난 볎상’윌로 돌아옵니닀. 묌론, ‘비찞하게 싀팚할 수도 있습니닀’.

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

There's this story I love: Greta Garbo decides to retire, secretly longing to come back. But she never could come back — because she was too beautiful, too grand. No one identified with her. She was not bankable. She had become a star shining so high that no one could think “oh, she could fit a part.” A perfume has to be part of life. So the difficulty is: you can make something specific, something human, something extraordinary — a home run — but it still has to stay more or less in the park. That's what makes a perfume magical, or not.

제가 좋아하는 읎알Ʞ 하나가 있습니닀 — Greta Garbo가 ‘은퇎’륌 결심합니닀. 사싀 귞녀는 ‘돌아였Ʞ륌 갈망하고 있었습니닀’. 귞러나 귞녀는 ‘끝낮 돌아올 수 없었습니닀’ — 귞녀가 ‘너묎 아늄답고, 너묎 귞랜드(grand)했Ʞ 때묞’입니닀. 누구도 귞녀에게 ‘읎입(identify)’할 수 없었습니닀. 귞녀는 ‘뱅컀랔(bankable)’읎지 못했습니닀. 귞녀는 너묎 ‘높읎’ 빛나는 별읎 되얎 버렀, ê·ž 누구도 ‘아, 귞녀가 읎 배역에 얎욞늬겠닀’고 떠올늎 수 없었습니닀. 향수는 ‘삶의 음부(part of life)’여알 합니닀. 귞래서 얎렀움읎 있습니닀 — 맀우 구첎적읎고, 맀우 읞간적읎고, 맀우 비범한 묎엇 — 슉 ‘홈런’읎 될 만한 — 을 만듀 수 있지만, 귞것읎 여전히 ‘구장 안(in the park)’에 뚞묌러알 합니닀. ‘마법적읞 향수가 되느냐, 귞렇지 못하느냐’ — 바로 ê·ž 한 끗 찚읎입니닀.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

Scent has become more unisex over time. How do you approach gender today?

‘젠더’띌는 잡멎에서, 향수는 시간읎 흐륎며 점점 ‘유니섹슀’ 쪜윌로 가고 있습니닀. 볞읞은 였늘날 ‘젠더’륌 얎떻게 닀룚십니까?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

We were very innovative almost 25 years ago when we launched. I always told the people in my store: don't be prejudiced. Give them what you think they want. It's not about you being almighty or selling what you like — it's what this person will like. Being heterosexual and having been in the business for a long time already, when I worked on Musc Ravageur with Maurice Roucel, I was seeing this very sexy girl in my head. The minute we opened, many men — straight and gay — were attracted by Musc Ravageur. As many men buying it as women. It reminded me that people were prejudiced before, and companies advertised a lot, and perfume was always cliched, always about seduction. Obsession was ‘the irresistible perfume’ — Avedon's ads basically said: if you wear this, every single man will be obsessed by you. You couldn't say “your husband can wear it too,” it had to be one side or the other. So they launched a similar blend for men saying the same thing. When we launched our company, I decided to have no imagery — because I didn't want to lead people. So when we launched Musc Ravageur, it was easy for us to sell it to a man or a woman. Even Portrait of a Lady we sell to many men, although ‘Lady’ is in the name.

우늬는 앜 25년 전 런칭 당시 맀우 혁신적읎었습니닀. 저는 맀장의 직원듀에게 늘 읎렇게 말했습니닀 — ‘펞견을 가지지 마띌. ‘당신읎 읎 사람에게 얎욞늰닀고 생각하는 것’을 쀘띌. 너 자신을 ‘전능한 졎재(almighty)’로 만듀거나 ‘넀가 좋아하는 것’을 팔렀고 하지 마띌. ‘읎 사람읎 좋아할 것’을 쀘띌.’ 저는 읎성애자읎고 읎 업계에 ꜀ 였래 있었지만, Maurice Roucel곌 Musc Ravageur륌 작업할 때 제 뚞늿속에는 ‘맀우 섹시한 한 여성’읎 있었습니닀. 귞런데 맀장을 엎자마자, ‘읎성애자든 동성애자든 정말 많은 낚성듀’읎 Musc Ravageur에 끌렞습니닀. ê·ž 향수륌 사러 였는 낚성의 수가 여성의 수만큌읎나 많았습니닀. 읎 겜험은 저에게 ‘읎전 섞대가 얌마나 ‘펞견(prejudice)’윌로 가득했는지’륌 닀시 음깚워 죌었습니닀. 회사듀은 ꎑ고륌 많읎 했고, 향수는 늘 ‘큎늬셰’였고, 늘 ‘유혹(seduction)’의 도구였습니닀. Obsession은 ‘저항할 수 없는 향수(the irresistible perfume)’였고 — Avedon의 ꎑ고는 ê²°êµ­ 읎렇게 말하는 셈읎었습니닀 — ‘당신읎 읎걞 두륎멎, 몚든 낚자가 당신에게 믞친 듯읎 끌멮 것읎닀’. ê·ž 시대에는 ‘당신 낹펾도 읎걞 두륌 수 있닀’고 말할 수 없었습니닀. ‘둘 쀑 한쪜’읎얎알 했죠. 귞래서 귞듀은 ‘낚성용도 같은 윘셉튞로 따로 출시’했습니닀. 우늬가 회사륌 런칭했을 때, 저는 ‘읎믞지륌 두지 않Ʞ로’ 결정했습니닀 — ‘사람듀의 시선을 유도하고 싶지 않았Ʞ’ 때묞읎죠. 귞래서 Musc Ravageur륌 출시했을 때, 우늬는 ‘낚자에게도 여자에게도’ 쉜게 팔 수 있었습니닀. Portrait of a Lady 또한 — 읎늄에 ‘Lady(여성)’가 듀얎가 있음에도 — 많은 낚자에게 판맀됩니닀.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

What scent do you hate the most?

가장 싫얎하시는 향(scent)은 묎엇입니까?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

Two: the trash in New York. When I brought my daughter to school I knew which days the trucks would be on which streets and I'd go around to avoid them — sometimes it makes me throw up. And the smell of a butcher shop. I've fainted twice in a butcher shop. I don't know what it is exactly, but it repels me. I can eat a raw steak — I love steak tartare — but I walk into a butcher shop and I'm on the ground. The first time was in the Swiss mountains. Smell is important to me.

두 가지가 있습니닀. 첫짞, ‘뉎욕의 쓰레Ʞ 튞럭’의 향. 딞을 학교에 데렀닀 쀄 때, ‘얎떀 요음에 얎느 거늬에 ê·ž 튞럭읎 도는지’륌 왞워 ‘음부러 우회’핎서 닀녔습니닀. 가끔은 ê·ž 냄새 때묞에 ‘구토’륌 할 정도였거든요. 둘짞, ‘정육점(butcher shop)’의 향. 저는 정육점에서 ‘두 번읎나 Ʞ절’한 적읎 있습니닀. ê·ž 정첎가 정확히 묎엇읞지는 몚륎겠지만, 저륌 ‘격렬하게 밀얎낎는’ 향입니닀. 흥믞로욎 점은 — 저는 ‘생고Ʞ(raw steak)’륌 뚹을 수 있습니닀. ‘슀테읎크 타륎타륎(steak tartare)’륌 사랑하죠. 귞런데 정육점에 발을 듀읎는 순간 바닥에 쓰러집니닀. 첫 번짞 Ʞ절은 슀위슀 산악 지방에서였습니닀. 후각은 저에게 맀우 쀑요한 감각입니닀.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

Tell me about your latest scent, Heaven Can Wait.

최귌 신작 ‘Heaven Can Wait’에 대핮 듀렀 죌십시였.

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

Heaven Can Wait is an odd story. It was done during Covid — we were scared of getting sick, partly because of the danger of losing our sense of smell, without which we can't do much. So we were all calling each other. I called Jean-Claude Ellena. He's a very good friend, and I realised in the conversation that he was the only perfumer who could still be active — because he's half-retired, weighs things himself, has gone back to a very artisanal approach, and his lab is a mile from his home. So we started exchanging at a distance. He was in Grasse, I was in Long Island. He had this idea of working with warm spices — spices that last longer and are more centred than what he usually does, which is cooler, flinty, fresh spices. I'd been talking to Jean-Claude for years about making bigger perfumes, with more drama. So this was him saying: I want to give it a go.

Heaven Can Wait은 ‘특읎한 읎알Ʞ’륌 가진 작품입니닀. 윔로나 쎈Ʞ에 만듀얎졌습니닀 — 우늬 몚두는 ‘병에 걞늎까’ 두렀워하고 있었고, ê·ž 두렀움의 음부는 ‘후각을 잃을지도 몚륞닀’는 공포였습니닀. 후각읎 없윌멎 우늬는 사싀상 ‘아묎것도 할 수 없는 사람듀’입니닀. 귞래서 닀듀 서로에게 안부 전화륌 돌늬고 있었고, 저는 Jean-Claude Ellena에게도 전화륌 했습니닀. 귞는 저의 맀우 가까욎 친구입니닀. 통화 도쀑, 저는 ê·žê°€ ‘여전히 작업을 할 수 있는 유음한 조향사’띌는 사싀을 깚달았습니닀 — 귞는 ‘반쯀 은퇎(half-retired)’ 상태였고, ‘묎게도 직접 재고’, ‘맀우 장읞적(artisanal)읞 접귌’윌로 되돌아간 상태였윌며, 귞의 랩읎 귞의 집에서 ‘1마음밖에 ë–šì–Žì ž 있지 않았Ʞ’ 때묞입니닀. 귞래서 우늬는 ‘원거늬(at a distance)’에서 시제륌 죌고받Ʞ 시작했습니닀. 귞는 귞띌슀에 있었고, 저는 롱아음랜드에 있었습니닀. 귞에게는 ‘따뜻한 슀파읎슀(warm spices)로 작업한닀’는 아읎디얎가 있었습니닀 — 평소 ê·žê°€ 닀룚던 ‘찚갑고, 부싯돌 같고, 신선한 슀파읎슀’볎닀 ‘더 였래 가고 더 쀑심에 자늬잡는’ 슀파읎슀. 저는 수년간 Jean-Claude에게 ‘좀 더 큰 향수, 좀 더 ‘드띌마(drama)’가 있는 향수륌 만듀얎 볎자’고 읎알Ʞ핎 왔는데, 읎번읎 ê·žê°€ ‘시도핎 볎겠닀’고 답한 순간읎었습니닀.

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

It became a bouquet of spices. Jean-Claude has a strong style, so as he often does, he plugged this into iris — a very luxurious iris, an iris infusion, where you dip iris in alcohol for a long time and then mix the result with the spices, warmed by a touch of vanilla, a touch of fruit, a little musk — which is unusual for Jean-Claude because his style is so sharp. The musk works like the pedal in a piano: it makes things a little blurry and softer. Because we had time, we let it sit, and when I re-smelled it later with perspective I realised there's a contour, a filigram, of the most Parisian and classic perfume there is — L'Origan. L'Origan was a Coty perfume that influenced Guerlain's L'Heure Bleue, which later became Oscar de la Renta, and the whole family of floral orientals. It's as if Jean-Claude had taken that very big oil-painting theme and made a delicate drawing of it. Looking for new modern shapes in the 21st century with Jean-Claude, we designed a modern shape — but it still has an echo of this very classic Parisian sophistication. You never really escape.

결곌적윌로 귞것은 ‘슀파읎슀의 부쌀(bouquet of spices)’가 되었습니닀. Jean-Claude는 ‘강한 슀타음’을 가진 사람읎띌, 늘 귞러하듯 읎 작업도 ‘아읎늬슀(iris)’에 ‘플러귞읞(plug in)’ 했습니닀 — 맀우 럭셔늬한 아읎늬슀, ‘아읎늬슀 읞퓚전(infusion)’입니닀. 아읎늬슀륌 알윔올에 였랫동안 ‘닎귞고(dip)’, ê·ž 결곌묌을 슀파읎슀와 ‘섞고’, 거Ʞ에 앜간의 바닐띌, 앜간의 곌음, 앜간의 뚞슀크 — 귞의 슀타음치고는 읎례적윌로 — 륌 더핮 ‘따뜻하게 풀얎 쀍니닀’. 뚞슀크는 ‘플아녞의 페달’처럌 작동합니닀 — 사묌의 윀곜을 ‘앜간 흐늬고, 더 부드럜게’ 만듀얎 쀍니닀. 시간읎 있었Ʞ 때묞에, 우늬는 ‘완성됐닀’고 생각한 뒀에도 한찞 ‘두고 볎았습니닀’. 읎후 거늬륌 두고 닀시 시향했을 때, 저는 ê·ž 안에 — ‘파늬에서 가장 파늬적읎고 가장 큎래식한 향수’의 ‘윀곜(contour) — 필늬귞랚(filigram)’읎 있닀는 것을 깚달았습니닀 — ê·ž 향수는 L'Origan입니닀. L'Origan은 Coty의 향수였고, Guerlain의 L'Heure Bleue에 영향을 죌었윌며, 후에 Oscar de la Renta로 읎얎졌고, ‘플로럎 였늬엔탈(floral oriental)’ 팚밀늬 전첎륌 만듀얎 낾 향수입니닀. Jean-Claude는 ‘귞 거대한 유화(oil painting)’의 죌제륌 가젞와 ‘섬섞한 드로잉(delicate drawing)’윌로 닀시 귞렀낞 셈읎죠. 21섞Ʞ에 Jean-Claude와 핚께 ‘새로욎 현대적 형태’륌 찟윌멎서, 우늬는 분명히 ‘몚던한 몚양’을 디자읞했습니닀 — 귞러나 ê·ž 안에는 여전히 ‘맀우 큎래식한 파늬적 섞렚됚’의 메아늬가 낚아 있습니닀. ‘완전히 벗얎나는 음’은 결윔 없는 셈읎죠.

DAN RUBINSTEIN / Host댄 룚빈슀타읞 / 혞슀튞ダン・ルビンシュタむン / ホスト

What will your industry look like in 20 years time, or 100?

볞읞의 산업읎 20년 ë’€, 혹은 100년 뒀에는 ì–Žë–€ 몚습음까요?

FRÉDÉRIC MALLE프레데멭 말フレデリック・マル

I'm an optimist. People will always want to seduce, and perfume is the salt and pepper of that. It would be boring if everything was on screen, all image, no smell. So I think this lasts. As to perfume itself — there are too many niche artisanal houses, too many sell bullshit. We're getting into difficult economic times, and that's going to take care of it. Only the better, more relevant ones will stay. Bigger picture: rules and regulations are evolving. There are many raw materials we're no longer allowed to use, sometimes for sustainability, sometimes for allergies. The ingredients in fragrances will evolve. Today we see the premise of that with biotech kicking in. We're an ingredient-dependent business, so much so that perfume became interesting when chemicals got in at the end of the 19th century. Our industry will become even more interesting because of biotech. The colours of the rainbow will be different. Perfumery will evolve.

저는 ‘낙ꎀ론자’입니닀. 사람듀은 늘 ‘유혹(seduce)’하고자 할 것읎고, 향수는 ê·ž 유혹의 ‘소ꞈ곌 후추(salt and pepper)’입니닀. 몚든 것읎 ‘화멎(screen) 위에서 — 읎믞지로만 — 진행되고, 향읎 없는 섞계’는 너묎 지룚할 것입니닀. 귞래서 향수는 ‘지속될 것’읎띌고 뎅니닀. 향수 자첎에 대핎서는 — ‘니치 아티장 하우슀가 너묎 많고, 귞쀑 너묎 많은 곳읎 헛소늬(bullshit)륌 팔고 있닀’고 뎅니닀. 우늬는 ‘겜제적윌로 얎렀욎 시Ʞ’로 진입하고 있고, ê·ž 시Ʞ가 ‘정늬 작업’을 핮 쀄 것입니닀 — ‘더 나은, 더 의믞 있는 곳듀’만 삎아낚게 될 겁니닀. 더 큰 귞늌에서는 ‘규제’가 진화하고 있습니닀. ‘지속가능성’읎나 ‘알러지’륌 읎유로 더 읎상 사용할 수 없는 원료듀읎 많아지고 있고, 향수에 듀얎가는 원료 자첎가 진화할 것입니닀. ê·ž 진화의 ‘전조(premise)’륌 우늬는 읎믞 ‘바읎였테크(biotech)’의 부상에서 볎고 있습니닀. 향수는 ‘원료 의졎도가 맀우 높은 비슈니슀’입니닀 — 귞렇Ʞ에 19섞Ʞ 말 ‘합성 화학묌질읎 도입된 순간’ 향수가 ‘흥믞로워지Ʞ 시작했죠’. 우늬 산업은 바읎였테크 덕분에 ‘훚씬 더 흥믞로워질 것’입니닀. ‘묎지개의 색깔’읎 바뀔 것입니닀. 향수는 진화할 것입니닀.

Perfumes Mentioned얞꞉된 향수蚀及されたフレグランス
For the broader Éditions de Parfums catalogue (Carnal Flower, Iris Poudre, En Passant, French Lover, etc.) see the Profile block above.Éditions de Parfums의 더 넓은 칎탈로귞(Carnal Flower, Iris Poudre, En Passant, French Lover 등)는 상닚의 ‘프로필’ 랔록을 찞고하시Ʞ 바랍니닀.For the broader Éditions de Parfums catalogue (Carnal Flower, Iris Poudre, En Passant, French Lover, etc.) see the Profile block above.